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A little bit of a rant on unregistered soap sellers

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  • A little bit of a rant on unregistered soap sellers

    First of all i would like to say that i do soap making as a hobby (but i do not sell), i'm doing as much research as i can on all the legalities of selling soap
    and trying to build up experience in the mean time. No point going into business just now as i have only been doing melt and pour for a year and cold process for 4 months. Still a lot to learn.

    I totally understand how annoying and concerning it must be for you business soap makers who are fully compliant with the law in selling soap to see 'hobbyists' selling soap and ignoring the law (i understand some people probably simply do not know about these laws) but some just turn a blind eye.

    Anyways i am doing all the research i can. And have encouraged a friend of mine into doing soap (melt and pour at the moment which i am thrilled she is enjoying playing with), but the thing is she intends on selling her soaps right away.

    I have told her that it is illegal to sell without a cosmetic safety assessment. But she just seems to ignore that. She just doesn't believe that all professional soap makers who sell are fully compliant.

    Personally, if i was to go to a craft fayre and buy some soaps or other bath and body products i would be sure to buy from the registered soap maker to the hobbyist even if the unregistered seller had better products. I mean these laws are set out to protect the public. How does a buyer know the cleanliness of that persons home/ kitchen/ etc..
    You could have a beautiful display of soaps but have a very dirty home where you make the products and are unregistered.

    I'm sorry for doing a long rant, but i just feel so strongly about the laws set in place and feel it is a slur against those who have worked very hard to get registered and make this part of their life as a job and a business.

    But it feels as if she is just not listening to me when i try to warn her about how serious it s to sell unregistered.
    I'm not saying i don't want her to sell, that would be excellent for her. I'm just ranting that she doesn't seem to be taking it seriously.

    And i just haven't got a clue how to turn her opinion around.

    Any ideas anyone?

  • #2
    I understand what your saying... I feel like this with candle making, I've been doing it for 13 years and the amount of people that get a candle making kit for Xmas or whenever and then within weeks they are selling online and on eBay ... What happened to registering with the tax office and getting public liability insurance, I have to do all this so don't see why others should get away with it.


    i am just starting cp soap but I wouldn't dream of selling it until I have got a safety assessment.

    Explain to her what would happen if one of her soaps gave someone an allergic reaction, how is she going to explain lack of pif files!...

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    • #3
      No matter who you sell to, even if it is friends who promise not to grass you up for selling without being registered, etc... By selling you still need at the least (as i believe) a cosmetic safety assessment.

      For example i have psoriasis, so i need to watch the type of products i use on my skin. If i was to buy a product under the assumption the product would not interfere with my skin condition (even though it isn't that bad, i still have it and have to treat it and do have out breaks of bad psoriasis) i would expect the seller to provide all the information needed. Hell forbid i ever bought a product that gave me an out break i wouldn't leave the manufacturer without a complaint or an action of some sort.

      A lot of people who have seen my soaps say i should sell. But when i bring up all the legal jargon their come back is "Well who's gonna know".
      Yeh, i'm not ready to get myself into trouble.

      I shall keep influencing the legalities and probable outcomes. As a newbie, she is really coming up with some fantastic ideas and it would be brilliant if she got some money out of it, but i'm just worried she will end up getting into trouble

      Thank you for the advice Wicky xxx

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      • #4
        You can hold your head high and know you are doing it right. As a long standing crafter this has been my pet hate for years, selling without registering, no pli and in the case of soaps etc no safety assessments. They will get found out and when they lose their homes for being sued will then come crying. Most of us on here are behind you and support you way of thinking, you are not alone and we all know we can hold our heads high.

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        • #5
          I agree with Caroline - you have done your bit.

          She will get caught out, if not by TS, by someone reporting her, usually another soaper who is trying to make an honest living - soaps without proper assessments stand out like a sore thump.

          TS do come to craft fairs and markets, they buy some products - take them away and the first you hear about it is when you get a letter from them.

          In your friends case, the book would be well and truly thrown at her - I trust she has the capital behind her to pay any fines - around £12,000 for non compliance and a possible 10 year custodial sentence - that is before the local council get in regarding running a business from home (if she hasn't told them) if she hasn't registered with HMRC they could have fun with her too.

          It just isn't worth it?

          Jane
          www.just-soaps.com
          Twitter JUSTSOAPS
          FB www.facebook.com/pages/Just-Soaps/258910018463
          Natural Handmade Olive Oil Soaps and Skincare free from SLS, Parabens, and other Nasties

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          • #6
            Has anyone ever come across they type of person where if you give them advice but they only hear what they like and disregard the stuff they don't like the sound of or would take them too much effort to do so?

            That's her.

            It's ok that she see's it as a hobby and enjoys creating soap designs. But now i'm getting bugged into when i am gonna be buying in more soap bases. My next little project is mastering liquid soap making. And i have done my research over a period of time. I simply cannot afford to try new things and buy bases in for her even if she gives me the money for it. I've told her about the supplier to go to, but obviously that's too much work for her to sign up and buy in herself so she expects me to do it for her.

            Again i'm sorry for wittering on and moaning.

            I'm happy to help her along her way with research and info i have gathered but at the moment she s testing my patience.

            On the subject of her selling, apparently a friend of her's who i don't know has already ordered christmas soaps.

            I've detailed the laws on selling but its not really being registered n her head so my thoughts are just to let her get on with it lol

            Sometimes tough love is the best policy.

            Ok rant over. And thank you everyone for backing me up on the whole selling thing. I feel so strongly as you all do when to comes selling bath and body products legally

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm afraid that I would be very tempted to take 'action' as I did when a friend told me about - and took me to - a shop where soft toys with loosely-sewn button eyes, string hair and no CE labelling were on sale.

              I told trading standards.

              I would not want to live with the possibility that a child - or anyone - could die from an obvious risk of which I was aware, but about which I did nothing.

              For a few moments I thought that the anonymous, all-seeing 'someone else' should take responsibility for reporting it, but decided that 'someone else' would probably be thinking the same as me. So I made the phone call.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SuzySoaping View Post
                Has anyone ever come across they type of person where if you give them advice but they only hear what they like and disregard the stuff they don't like the sound of or would take them too much effort to do so?

                That's her.

                Unfortunately this sort of thing happens so often, someone asks for advice does not like what you have told them despite years of experience, gets stroppy and turns nasty.

                It's ok that she see's it as a hobby and enjoys creating soap designs. But now i'm getting bugged into when i am gonna be buying in more soap bases. My next little project is mastering liquid soap making. And i have done my research over a period of time. I simply cannot afford to try new things and buy bases in for her even if she gives me the money for it. I've told her about the supplier to go to, but obviously that's too much work for her to sign up and buy in herself so she expects me to do it for her.

                Tell her you are not a wholesaler and as such cannot order and supply her with materials particularly as she is not compliant and it could come back on you and your reputation, have you thought about this? you are supplying her with raw materials she stuffs up and says she got them from you. Walk away and write down the supplier then on her head be it, perhaps also write down what she needs to do to make and sell.

                Again i'm sorry for wittering on and moaning.

                I'm happy to help her along her way with research and info i have gathered but at the moment she s testing my patience.

                On the subject of her selling, apparently a friend of her's who i don't know has already ordered christmas soaps.

                I've detailed the laws on selling but its not really being registered n her head so my thoughts are just to let her get on with it lol

                Sometimes tough love is the best policy.

                Ok rant over. And thank you everyone for backing me up on the whole selling thing. I feel so strongly as you all do when to comes selling bath and body products legally
                For your own sake walk away this is tying you up in knots and really she should be doing her own research not getting you to do all the work. I think you need to be hard and tell her enough is enough your time is just as precious and ignore her phone calls etc. Plus as Eena says report to TS when you know that she is going to sell at an event and let them deal with it.


                Last edited by Caroleecrafts; 19-03-2013, 07:31 AM.

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                • #9
                  I would also add, if she has a car she sounds like the type of person who - as she only nips to the shop once a week - doesn't have insurance?

                  Be very wary of letting her drive you anywhere?
                  www.just-soaps.com
                  Twitter JUSTSOAPS
                  FB www.facebook.com/pages/Just-Soaps/258910018463
                  Natural Handmade Olive Oil Soaps and Skincare free from SLS, Parabens, and other Nasties

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                  • #10
                    I agree with all the above posts but the very least you should do is refuse to get the raw ingredients for her. Tell her that by doing so it makes you complicit and that you are not prepared to put your reputation at risk unless she becomes legal. Perhaps she'll kick off and fall out with but maybe thats a chance you'll have to take because she not being a good friend to you at the moment, as she obviously has no respect for you and your soap making business.

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                    • #11
                      I think that a lot of people think that because they've once made cakes for a bake sale at their kid's school then they can sell anything. I've had to explain it to a few people and the response has been pretty much an equal split between people who quite understand and those who say it's health and safety gone mad. I don't think it helps sometimes that people have used my soaps with no problems whatso ever when they've been given to them as gifts and like the product and therefore find it hard to see that the could be a problem - have tried to explain the reasons behind the legislation and the potential pitfalls but I just get a blank look and some comment about my soaps being "all natural" so what's the problem, pointing out that arsenic is naturally occurring usually shuts them up at this point........

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                      • #12
                        Thank you for all the lovely advice folks

                        Like i originally said. I don't sell. I feel i'm far too inexperienced. But i'm trying to gather as much info as i can so i can set up properly and sell legally. There is a lot to learn, so in the mean time i'm just practicing the art of cold process soap making, etc...

                        To be quite honest, with her wanting me to buy in stuff for her is her sheer laziness. As for her intending to sell and ignoring my warnings its just sheer ignorance.

                        I feel it is a slur against those who do everything by the book and are trying to earn a living with those who just think the laws don't apply to them.

                        I'm pleased she is enjoying making soaps, but the whole selling part i just can't support her with. She's since found a new supplier of ingredients http://soapmakers-store.com/index.as...%26+Pour+Bases

                        i don't know how good they are. I just buy from the likes of just a soap and grace fruit as i know they are most popular.

                        Im not saying it wouldn't be great for her to sell, it just irritates me the cheek of her wanting to sell illegally.

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                        • #13
                          That's another thing she said on facebook that i do all the research and she just makes.

                          I didn't know whether to laugh in shock at the cheek or get really angry.

                          I've worked so hard the past year doing research and writing notes. I have 3 note books 2 of which are packed full on info and a folder of print off's

                          The least research she has done is liked a melt and pour soap making page on facebook.

                          Soap making is something i am passionate about, it is a big part of my life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh dear,not very nice for you is it.

                            I think you should as others have said not supply her anymore, she needs to find her own place and not piggy back off you now she is "serious" about her making. You have done everything right, pointed out what she should do and it is on her head.

                            Rules, HMRC and trading standards are there for a reason, and she will be the one with "soap" on her face if someone decides to tell them about her little business.
                            If you dont have a go ................... you will never know

                            https://www.facebook.com/HatPiece

                            www.HatPiece.co.uk

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                            • #15
                              I've just noticed one of my Fb friends making and selling soaps on her page , I know For a fact she hasn't got a safety assessment

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