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  • tested on animals ??

    hi, looking for advice. I have been approached by one of my (CP soap)customers for a soap that could be used on dogs to repel fleas etc. This is easily done & i have come up with some citronella, t tree, lemongrass etc etc combos. I am very anxious to accomodate this idea BUT how can I wash my dog in the new soap without being accused of testing it on an animal ? Of course this is exactly what i would be doing! any thoughts on how far the certification goes re this as well. I have tested the soap on all my family and friends with excellent flea repelling results (lol) but the only way forward is to now wash my dogs-any thoughts?
    Last edited by soap queen; 01-06-2009, 12:05 PM.
    Amanda


    www.janeexelbys.blogspot.com

  • #2
    Are you not using it on the dog rather than testing it on the dog?
    I would have thought if none of the ingredients are tested on animals then there is no problem.
    How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will have been all of these.

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    • #3
      Well, firstly is this "not tested on Animals" or the Body shop version "we use ingredients that have in the past been tested on animals, but our finished product has not"..

      If you have "tested" on humans, using the product on your dog (as the intended customer) is not "testing" in the same way.. or L'oreal etc would be testing on humans every product they sell.. so I wouldn't worry about it!

      I hope you took in to account that Doggy skin is more sensitive than Human, and dog fur is a different PH and structure to human hair, and thus you may need to structure your basic cleansing product slightly differently!

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      • #4
        "Testing on animals" definitely is not the same as "I tried it on my dog, for it's intended purpose"... think back to the makeup tests on rabbits.... testers didn't apply the makeup to the rabbits to make them look nice, did they?
        "I was inoculated, very early in life, against all forms of magic and elfin whimsy, even when convincingly disguised as literature." Clive James
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        • #5
          Originally posted by sparkysdad View Post
          Well, firstly is this "not tested on Animals" or the Body shop version "we use ingredients that have in the past been tested on animals, but our finished product has not"..

          If you have "tested" on humans, using the product on your dog (as the intended customer) is not "testing" in the same way.. or L'oreal etc would be testing on humans every product they sell.. so I wouldn't worry about it!

          I hope you took in to account that Doggy skin is more sensitive than Human, and dog fur is a different PH and structure to human hair, and thus you may need to structure your basic cleansing product slightly differently!
          I agree, but cannot give more rep.

          Remember that you will have to have a Vetinary assessment done for dog shampoo - personally I would avoid citronella - too many allergens.

          Jane
          www.just-soaps.com
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          • #6
            I can't rep Sparksdad either (think it's a bit of favouritism!), but I agree with what he says. Surely you are doing the same to the dog as you would be if you tested new products on yourself?

            I've now got horrible images of rabbits wearing make-up and I can see loads from my office window (our campus is over-run by the buggers!)

            Sally x
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            • #7
              When stating "not tested on animals" you have to have all paper work from suppliers to back up claims.

              Jane
              www.just-soaps.com
              Twitter JUSTSOAPS
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              • #8
                You don't have to have cert/SA for animal shampoos, soaps etc.

                However if you market any product (whether for humans or animals) as one which repels or destroys insects and mites etc. then the recipe/product has to be officially scientifically tested and proven.
                ElaineJ soap and other stuff
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElaineJ View Post
                  You don't have to have cert/SA for animal shampoos, soaps etc.

                  However if you market any product (whether for humans or animals) as one which repels or destroys insects and mites etc. then the recipe/product has to be officially scientifically tested and proven.
                  I am sorry Elaine, but it is most important to get an assessment done for animal use, especially if human hands are doing the washing

                  Jane
                  www.just-soaps.com
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by greannancrafts View Post
                    I am sorry Elaine, but it is most important to get an assessment done for animal use, especially if human hands are doing the washing

                    Jane
                    Sorry Jane I disagree - it may seem logical but it's not so.

                    http://www.vmd.gov.uk/publications/c.../VMGNote23.pdf

                    Cosmetic Products
                    There are no specific regulations for cosmetic products for animals; they are subject to the general definition of veterinary medicines. Products that do not make specific medicinal claims and are used for cosmetic purposes only, such as colouring shampoos and hoof oils are not normally considered to be veterinary medicines


                    Shampoos
                    A shampoo for animals will be considered medicinal if it contains an insecticide or is presented as an insecticidal shampoo. However, a medicated shampoo which claims for the control or prevention of dandruff or scurf is not considered medicinal. Reference to skin conditions such as seborrhoea and dermatitis should not be made in connection with an unauthorised shampoo.
                    ElaineJ soap and other stuff
                    website
                    blog

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                    • #11
                      I would imagine any soapies would want to inform their clients that a pet product was not Ph balanced for humans though. especially the ones promoting their products as "natural" and kind to skin etc..

                      I could just imagine a dog owner who bought a spe******t soap for themselves and their families assuming a pet product from the same company was fine to use without consideration to their own skin..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sparkysdad View Post
                        I would imagine any soapies would want to inform their clients that a pet product was not Ph balanced for humans though. especially the ones promoting their products as "natural" and kind to skin etc..

                        I could just imagine a dog owner who bought a spe******t soap for themselves and their families assuming a pet product from the same company was fine to use without consideration to their own skin..
                        Very true, a dog has a much more sensitive skin than humans.
                        The ph for dog soap has to be lower, when I hear people say that they wash their muts in washing up liquid and how the poor mite has eczema, I could shake them.

                        As the dog is usually wash by humans then I still feel it is safer to get it assessed not only for the dog but for the shampooer - imagine what would happen if dog and owner had a reaction to the shampoo?

                        Jane
                        www.just-soaps.com
                        Twitter JUSTSOAPS
                        FB www.facebook.com/pages/Just-Soaps/258910018463
                        Natural Handmade Olive Oil Soaps and Skincare free from SLS, Parabens, and other Nasties

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                        • #13
                          i don't understand much about soap making other than what i have picked up from here and chats to Jane should we see each other at fairs but surely it would make good business sense to cover every base when it comes to selling a product
                          Always better to be safe than sorry IMO
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                          • #14
                            As the dog is usually wash by humans then I still feel it is safer to get it assessed not only for the dog but for the shampooer - imagine what would happen if dog and owner had a reaction to the shampoo?
                            The person who started this thread is already sell CP soap (and so presumably has SA/Cert) which will be suitable for human use.

                            Since animal cosmetics are not required by law to be certified or assessed then finding an assessor to do so could well be extremely difficult if not impossible.
                            ElaineJ soap and other stuff
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                            blog

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                            • #15
                              many thanks

                              many thanks to all for top tips. I have spoken to my assessor who confirms that if the soap is covered by a human assessment then it needs no further work. I think that on balance the 'claims' of medicinal/therapeutic benefits are perhaps another minefield that it would be best not to wander into. Many thanks for reminding me to ph it carefully. will let you all know how it goes.
                              Amanda


                              www.janeexelbys.blogspot.com

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