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  • VAT on stall fees

    Many fairs run by larger concerns charge VAT on their stall fees but i am wondering what the situation is regarding this. One of the more well known fairs i know of do not seem to charge VAT on the rent. They do charge VAT on the rental of a table / electric supply etc which seems perfectly reasonable as it's a service provided by them.

    I seem to remember back-along that VAT wasn't payable on stall rents. Am i right does any one know ??

    The thing i'm thinking is that many of us are not VAT registered and if we had the option of renting space only ( without incurring VAT on top) we could provide our own table and save 20 % on our stall fee expenditure.

    As i am writing cheques out for this years christmas shows ( 2nd time ive mentioned the C word this year on this forum ) i just got to thinking if i should be paying VAT on a stall rent when i dont use the table provided. The thought of paying 20 % less is very appealing.

    Who can put me straight on this anyone ?
    http://www.dosrodgerspottery.co.uk/

  • #2
    It gets really complicated this one - I remember when I worked as an Exhibition Organiser I was often asked why we charged VAT on the stands when there were other companies that didn't. I asked my boss and he advised that as a company we could opt in or out of the VAT element and decide if we were going to charge it on stands (and this was then all sorted out within the VAT returns at the end of the year).

    I suspect there may also be a case of the smaller organisers not taking enough money in the year to have to register for VAT. I attend fairs where some charge VAT and some don't (it is mainly the larger ones who charge VAT), however it is payable if it is part of the overall cost of your attendance at the fair.


    Maybe someone will be able to explain it better (not difficult!!)
    Ali x

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    • #3
      If your not registered then best not worry about it...

      I've never heard of stalls are fairs being exempt for vat ???

      Of course if the biz is not VAT registered then no vat should be charged but if the biz is then I'm pretty sure stalls aren't exempt for vat

      Exempt goods and services

      There are some goods and services on which VAT is not charged. These are exempt from VAT. Items that are exempt from VAT include the following:
      • insurance, finance and credit
      • education and training
      • fund raising events by charities
      • subscriptions to membership organisations
      • selling, leasing and letting of commercial land and buildings - but this exemption can be waived
      http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/...-exemption.htm

      As you can see from the list if it was run by charities then you shouldn't but again basically if your not registered then don't worry to much..
      .


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      • #4
        Originally posted by 0103media View Post
        If your not registered then best not worry about it...
        well i do a bit exactly because i cant claim VAT back ....so... if a VAT registered craft event company can choose to opt out of charging VAT on rented space ( and if i understand Alicat correctly it can) then why do some charge it ? it makes the stall rent 20 % more expensive to the likes of me and many other craft makers who are not VAT registered.

        Like i said I can clearly see on the application details of one well known craft fair promoters blurb that they only charge you VAT on table hire and electricity supply and not the space rental so i'm still not entirely sure that VAT needs to be charged on renting sales pitches at craft fairs.

        Maybe in this case the services are supplied by a VAT registered company and the 'craft fair' company is a seperate business and not VAT registered ...who knows but it certainly got me thinking.
        http://www.dosrodgerspottery.co.uk/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by potpartner View Post
          Maybe in this case the services are supplied by a VAT registered company and the 'craft fair' company is a seperate business and not VAT registered ....
          I think you may have hit the nail on the head there! It would certainly make sense as I know a lot of organisers do hire in tables from other companies.

          Was very interesting to read the quote Mr M found regarding insurance being exempt from VAT - we pay our Tescos pet insurance by DD and they put up the payment in January apparently because of the VAT increase!
          Visit Natty Netty for a huge selection of Iris Folding supplies

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nattynetty View Post

            Was very interesting to read the quote Mr M found regarding insurance being exempt from VAT - we pay our Tescos pet insurance by DD and they put up the payment in January apparently because of the VAT increase!
            Oh dear some one's messed up there at Tesco's should be worth a phone call i think. Insurance now there's another thread ...
            http://www.dosrodgerspottery.co.uk/

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            • #7
              I have also raised this issue many times with organisers.

              We do many events, often paying over £1000 - some charge vat on everything, some on space only.

              As I understand it, it is how the organisers sell the concept to the vatman.

              Space, as I understand it is not vatable - ie the council lets out market stalls, the council is vat registered - but there is no vat on the rental of stall, even when they offer addon of erected stall (a service)

              Fortunately, we are vat registered, so can claim vat back - but it does make stall fees very expensive if producer is not registered.

              Jane
              www.just-soaps.com
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              • #8
                When I think back, the opt out of VAT for organisers may have been related to whether VAT was charged to overseas-based exhibitors??? (I am going back a number of years). It was a really complicated issue but certainly I wouldn't expect to be charged VAT for the smaller once a year shows where the organisers are very unlikely to be VAT registered.

                Many of the services and add-ons at shows (such as electric supply, tables/chairs, etc) are via third parties and therefore it is very possible that VAT may appear on some costs but not all.
                Ali x

                Etsy Shop: aliscraftstudio.etsy.com
                Facebook: AlisCraftStudio
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by greannancrafts View Post

                  Space, as I understand it is not vatable - ie the council lets out market stalls, the council is vat registered - but there is no vat on the rental of stall, even when they offer addon of erected stall (a service)



                  Jane
                  That's exactly what i thought so ,for instance , i decide to take up the offer of a space at one craft fair and supply my own table and dont use the supplied electricity I pay no VAT yet do exactly the same at another fair and I have to stump up 20% VAT for the same product..ie sales space just because one provider has set up their 'craft fair' business differently to the other. If indeed VAT is not chargeable on sales space (rented sales space) then in my humble opinion it should never be VATed by anyone.

                  I'm not trying to be a pain here ...just trying to understand what seems to be a questionable practise.

                  Thanks for the replies so far
                  http://www.dosrodgerspottery.co.uk/

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                  • #10
                    This is really complicated Pot Partner...we have to pay VAT on almost everything (so I am watching this thread with interest) because we have included VAT on our pricing for the craft market...that means if you are VAT registered you can get a receipt and claim it back. (because we are VAT registered) So surely that defeats the object, doesn't it cancel itself out? Help I'm confused!!! What is the point of VAT anyway???
                    Website: www.covegardennursery.co.uk
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nattynetty View Post
                      Was very interesting to read the quote Mr M found regarding insurance being exempt from VAT - we pay our Tescos pet insurance by DD and they put up the payment in January apparently because of the VAT increase!
                      IPT went up in january so maybe that is the reason the insurance increased although they should have explained that.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HF Glass Lady View Post
                        This is really complicated Pot Partner...we have to pay VAT on almost everything (so I am watching this thread with interest) because we have included VAT on our pricing for the craft market...that means if you are VAT registered you can get a receipt and claim it back. (because we are VAT registered) So surely that defeats the object, doesn't it cancel itself out? Help I'm confused!!! What is the point of VAT anyway???
                        oooooh i feel really embarrassed now because we have applied for a stall at your garden nursery event. Please don't think that i was having a go. Your charges are so reasonable the VAT thing is'nt worth worrying about.... but I have been writing some cheques out for christmas shows this week and if i didn't have to pay all that VAT ( as i havn't with one craft fair ) then the money saved would have taxed the van for a year and filled it with diesel too
                        http://www.dosrodgerspottery.co.uk/

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                        • #13
                          I think it is all to do with how a business is set up and their "norm".

                          For example, if I buy olive oil (food so no vat) from a cosmetic ingredient supplier, vat is charged, because that is their norm to sell to cosmetic industry.

                          If I buy olive oil from a food ingredient supplier there is no vat - but if I sell that olive oil to a caterer then I have to add vat, because that is not my normal source of income.

                          It is a bit like the old Kitkat debate?

                          Jane
                          www.just-soaps.com
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by greannancrafts View Post
                            I think it is all to do with how a business is set up and their "norm".
                            Yep...

                            The insurance example maybe to do with the "service" as I'm sure tesco don't do insurance but work as a broker..

                            The "service" element is what's not clear to the end buyer and I'm sure most of you have seen how different as biz invoice is vs a customer receipt...

                            Take the petrol station you always get a receipt and asked if you'd like a VAT receipt too, why because it shows different elements, basically a biz invoice..
                            .


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                            (£5.50 a month or £50 per year)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 0103media View Post

                              Take the petrol station you always get a receipt and asked if you'd like a VAT receipt too, why because it shows different elements, basically a biz invoice..
                              You are still charged vat though, whether you have a vat receipt or not.

                              If I understand correctly the OP asked, why can 2 different vat registered businesses sell space, with one adding vat and one not.

                              it is a complicated area:-( And tough on traders who are not vat registered.

                              Jane
                              www.just-soaps.com
                              Twitter JUSTSOAPS
                              FB www.facebook.com/pages/Just-Soaps/258910018463
                              Natural Handmade Olive Oil Soaps and Skincare free from SLS, Parabens, and other Nasties

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