Advice on breaking into the scene?

[Hopeful trader]

Hi there,
I am moving to Edinburgh in a few weeks, and I am hoping to get a market trading stall up and running. As well as aiming to trade in Edinburgh I would like to get into some surrounding markets. I am new to this and I'm not really sure of the best way to apply to markets (or to find them, come to think of it!) and get licenses. Does anyone have any helpful advice on websites or mailing lists, or where to apply for licenses in Edinburgh and beyond? It would be a craft and goods stall, not a food stall. I currently live in Ireland, which is why I'm not really in touch with my home country.
I'd be eternally grateful for any help on this that anyone can give me.

Best regards,

Hopeful Trader (aka Blair)

[Critchley]

Can't help you but welcome to the forum anyway. Someone will be along shortly with usefull info.,

[urbtaf]

National market traders federation, their web site will answer a lot of your questions. Ive worked markets for 30+ years so if you need to know something specific then E-mail me, if you want to know everything about markets I would be on this computer for the next few years.
If I were looking at the Edin area then I would be paying a lot of attention to the more tourist areas as I have heard that craft type goods are well catered for up there. good luck, and buy some good thermals for winter

[Jo Lovejoy]

Hi Blair andto the forum, good luck with the move to Edinburgh, its a beautiful place and I hope you get sorted with setting up your stall.
Jo x

[auntynet]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I'm Mrs Urbtaf and just to reiterrate what he said about thermals - don't go for cheapies, splash out on M&S thermals cos you do get what you pay for. And you'll find that you're wearing them much earlier than you would expect!!!

The other thing I wanted to mention was that Scotland does have its own legal system and it can differ greatly to England's so it would be worth checking if the same goes for trading laws.

[bright&beautiful]

Unexpectedly, I've had some of my best advice regarding markets and lots more from my local trading standards officer, because they are on that ground a lot they seem to have a lot of insider info & helpful tips.

[GlamGlass]

omg I thought you had meant thermals as in flasks!!!.......D'oh!

Hello and btw

[urbtaf]

Don't rely on trading standards. We've recently been visited by them and we knew more about the stuff we sell than they do. They didn't know the difference between sterling and 925 silver and they had never heard of hill tribe silver!

I always knew that you cant call silver strerling silver unless its been to the assey office to be hallmarked. However I have now been informed that you now cannot label 925 silver as "silver" unless it has been to the office (0r so we are told). I can however sell fools gold as fools gold even though that is definitely not gold and has never been to the assey office. They are now considering wether i can sell Herkimer Diamonds as diamonds - even though that is the correct trade name for them. We've spent the last week doing a lot of re-labeling.

omg I thought you had meant thermals as in flasks!!!.......D'oh!

Try working the markets 3 days every week for a year and you'll know what thermals I'm on about.

And I thought only my wife was blond.

[MuranoSilver]

As far as I know you can sell silver as sterling silver if it's under 7.78g

Extract from The London Assay offices website:
"There is an exemption by weight: compulsory hallmarks are not needed on gold under 1g, silver under 7.78g and platinum under 0.5g. Also, some descriptions are permissible, such as rolled gold and gold plate."
http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/assay...thallmarks.htm

You should however be displaying a Statutory notice of legal hallmarks.
hope this helps

Nic xx

[auntynet]

Hi Nic. In reply to your comment...

The new legislation states that you can sell un-hallmarked silver below 7.78g but you cannot label it "sterling" unless the item has been hallmarked by the assay office.

This is what we were informed by TS only a week ago but they were a little bit confused to say the least!! Honestly, I really don't think they know what they are on with but they have got a bee in their bonnet and we just have to ride it out and comply with their rules - however stupid they may seem.

They did tell us that any components we purchase as "sterling" can be labelled as sterling providing we have the receipts to prove it. If we don't have them when they ask us then they can confiscate the items until we provide the proof - but who keeps their receipts on the market stall?

We do have a Hallmark Chart but we don't sell anything that is hallmarked.

As my hubby said, we knew more about our products than they did but they are "looking into a few things and will get back to us"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wait with baited breath.

[MuranoSilver]

Even theAssay office docs are confusing, lol
Here is a link to the PDF that explains the practicalities of the Hallmarking Act as far as the Assay Office are concerned....
http://www.theassayoffice.co.uk/imag...es%20FINAL.pdf

It seems to imply that as long as they are below the legal weight you can describe it as what it is (e.g. If I buy .925 stamped sterling earwires, I could describe them as sterling silver)

"UK Hallmarking Act
Current hallmarking requirements come under the UK Hallmarking Act 1973 and subsequent amendments. The Act is built around the principle of description, where it is an offence for any person to apply to an unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum. There is an exemption by weight; compulsory hallmarks are not needed on gold under 1g, silver under 7.78g and platinum under 0.5g. Also, some descriptions are permissible, such as rolled gold and gold plate."

Personally I'm more inclined to believe the Assay office than the trading standards...Even Trading Standards own site's news section, implies that sterling articles under 7.78g are fine to be described as sterling silver..
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/rbwm/news1004.htm
"The prosecution was brought under the Hallmarking Act 1973 which places a duty on traders to ensure that products described as silver and heavier than 7.78g are hallmarked by an assay office. The assay system is one of the oldest forms of consumer protection and exists to ensure that items made from precious metals comply with various requirements including minimum standards of fineness."

There are other exceptions too, such as items made entirely of filigree (which are too fine to hallmark) they're listed at the back of the PDF.
At the end of the day all i can do is act in good faith and keep my legal cover insurance up to date!

Nic x
P.S> Sorry for the thread hijack....

[Kiamyka]

As far as I know you can sell silver as sterling silver if it's under 7.78g

Nic xx

This is my understanding too and I agree they all seem to not be quite sure themsleves . None of my pieces include so much silver anyway so i tend to describe them with workds like sterling silver fastener, sterling silver ear wires etc
To get back on topic making your mark is down to lots of hard work, peresverence, trial and error, networking, smiling a lot, great customer service etc etc .What do you plan to trade?

[Hopeful trader]

Thanks for the advice so far guys. I'm aiming to sell Tibetan bags and goods, see how that goes. The Edinburgh County Council has all the nessesary application forms etc for street trading, but no info on markets outside or around the city. Plus, they are not being very forthcoming about replying to e-mails. As has been mentioned here more than once, perseverance seems to be the first skill to perfect

[Critchley]

When I did the markets all the blokes wore ladies tights OVER their thermals for extra protection.

[urbtaf]

So thats why Ive got such an iterest in ladies underwear

On a more serious note HOPEFULL (love that name)
If I remember right the council in scotland are responcible for street markets, but the main markets north of the border could all be in private hands, the english charter market laws dont apply up there. The councils will not promote private markets so you will have to contact them direct.
Experience of finding new markets Ive had is that the only way to do it is to go to the market , spot a trader who looks bored and engage them in conversation, is ammasing what they will tell you, and some (about 10% )are even nice people

ps the word blindness is kicking in, plese excuse