Damaged Items During Delivery - who should claim?

[Katianne]

I received an email today from someone who bought one of my mirrors from Ebay, but on arrival the mirror is cracked in 2 places. Obviously it wasn't like this when I sent it so must have happened in transit. He asked what needs to happen about this so I explained he needs to make a claim through Royal Mail, as the mirror was covered up tp the cost of £34 (he bought it for £30. The buyer has emailed me back to say he is disappointed with my response, but I don't feel I am being unreasonable.

From personal experience of making a claim through the postal service, they ask you to send them the packaging, photos of the damage and proof of postage. As he has the packaging and mirror, the claim needs to come from him. I have offered to send / email him the proof of postage and explained why he needs to make the claim. I have explained the he will be sent a pre=paid envelope to attach te the parcel so will not need to pay postage.

Am I being unreasonable? I don't think I am but the way he has responded has made me feel quite upset.

[colourart]

Your not being unreasonable imho, it makes sense that he needs to make the claim, I expect you explained to him what you've explained to us.

I guess the alternative is to have him send the item back to you and for you to make the claim and decide whether you want to pay for that as a gesture of good will. Can you rise any negative feedback? Sorry I can't been much help, I can see what an awkward situation it is, RM has alot to answer for.

[Katianne]

If it results in negative feedback I think thats very unfair, as I think what I have said is fair. I know it is a pain to make the claim but the mirror was covered should something like this happen so he should get his money back shouldn't he?

[Beadsage]

You are right - it was damaged in transit, so it's the carrier's responsibility, and the only person who can prove it's damaged is the recipient. There wouldn't be anything you could do even if you wanted to, all you can supply is proof of postage, your client is being naive as well as unreasonable! :)

[Katianne]

Would it be safer to use a courier instead in the future? I would have to up the postage as it would cost more but that must be better if there's less chance of things like this happening. How do you go about finding /organing for something to be sent via courier?

[Katianne]

You are right - it was damaged in transit, so it's the carrier's responsibility, and the only person who can prove it's damaged is the recipient. There wouldn't be anything you could do even if you wanted to, all you can supply is proof of postage, your client is being naive as well as unreasonable! :)

Thank you Peter! You can't imagine how much it helps to hear people agree with what I have said. I thought I was being reasonable but he was so negative it has really upset me. If he does give me negative feedback because of this (which would be very unfair, is there any way I can challenge it?

[colourart]

If it results in negative feedback I think thats very unfair, as I think what I have said is fair. I know it is a pain to make the claim but the mirror was covered should something like this happen so he should get his money back shouldn't he?


I agree that a neg. feedback would be unfair and you are being reasonable it would be quicker and easier for him to claim, and its something that was not your fault. I hope he doesn't give you a neg. feedback, you definately wouldn't deserve it.( :) a supportive smiley)

Perhaps you could tell him he would receive the money back more quickly if he made the claim, as he would have to wait for the parcel to be returned to you before you could claim.

[colourart]

You are right - it was damaged in transit, so it's the carrier's responsibility, and the only person who can prove it's damaged is the recipient. There wouldn't be anything you could do even if you wanted to, all you can supply is proof of postage, your client is being naive as well as unreasonable! :)

Thats very interesting. That would resolve your problem.

[nattynetty]

I may be wrong here and you may not want to hear this but I was led to believe that the sender is the only person able to make the claim. Casting my mind back to when I claimed for a lost parcel the form was quite detailed and probably only the sender would be able to answer all the questions.

Had a quick looksee on the Royal Mail website and it said this

"Once your claim is received, our customer services team may also ask you for any inner or outer packaging if your item was damaged when it arrived at its destination."

So it sounds like you make the initial claim and if RM want to see the packaging your customer would then have to forward it on - so make sure he keeps hold of all the packaging. If I was you I'd ask at your Post Office tomorrow morning - they should know the score.


Would it be safer to use a courier instead in the future? I would have to up the postage as it would cost more but that must be better if there's less chance of things like this happening. How do you go about finding /organing for something to be sent via courier?

Knowing how my parcels arrive when the courier delivers them here I'd say stay well clear as the boxes frequently have tears or are squashed, but if you did want to go that way give me a PM as I go through a broker which is very competitively priced.

[beadsbydesign]

When a similar thing happened to me, I asked for the buyer to supply mw with the photos etc. I then put the claim in. The insurance cover was purchased by you. Therefore you need to make the claim.

You don't need to refund the money up front, but inform the client that should you receive a payment from royal mail then you will refund him.

If you had purchased somthing from a company and it had arrived broken then you would expect to be refunded.

[Katianne]

I may be wrong here and you may not want to hear this but I was led to believe that the sender is the only person able to make the claim. Casting my mind back to when I claimed for a lost parcel the form was quite detailed and probably only the sender would be able to answer all the questions.

Had a quick looksee on the Royal Mail website and it said this

"Once your claim is received, our customer services team may also ask you for any inner or outer packaging if your item was damaged when it arrived at its destination."

So it sounds like you make the initial claim and if RM want to see the packaging your customer would then have to forward it on - so make sure he keeps hold of all the packaging. If I was you I'd ask at your Post Office tomorrow morning - they should know the score.

Thanks for this - have had a look at the claim form on RM website and it seems either can put the claim in. You do need info such as where and when the parcel was posted, but I have emailed this to the buyer and have agreed to send him the proof of posting. RM then send the person that makes the claim a pre-paid envelope (which can be attached to a parcels), asking you to send the packaging. Because the buyer has this, it makes more sense that this goes to him and therefore he makes the claim? They also state they may ask to insoect the item, again as he has this it seems to me that its easier to do this from his end. I suppose the other way of doing it would be for him to return everything to me, but then he would have to foot the bill for the postage, so as a result it would cost him more overall?

I feel really deflated about al this at the moment, it takes the enjoyment after doing crafts when you have to go through things like this. :mad:

[Katianne]

When a similar thing happened to me, I asked for the buyer to supply mw with the photos etc. I then put the claim in. The insurance cover was purchased by you. Therefore you need to make the claim.

You don't need to refund the money up front, but inform the client that should you receive a payment from royal mail then you will refund him.

If you had purchased somthing from a company and it had arrived broken then you would expect to be refunded.

So if RM won't refund the money, I will have to?

[Katianne]

Has anyone had experience of making a claim and did they pay out?

[beadsbydesign]

have pm'd you!

[icecreamgirl]

Just thought i would put my two pence worth in.
I can understand all you are saying, it sounds from what you say that it is easier all round for the buyer to make the claim....
But i think from the buyers point of view, they have payed you for the postage and so i can see why they would expect you to be the one to sort t out. They paid their money to you. You were the one that paid the money to RM.

I think if it were me i would get them to post it back and sort it from your end. It's very unlucky and the nature of your product means that it's more likely to get damaged than other products, but i really think that you should keep the customer happy.
I read somewhere that a dissatisfied customer will tell about 20 people about their grumble.
Which in the long term will have more effect on your business than if you were to just refund the customer.
Any way that's just my tuppence, i'm sorry for you, hope it dosnt happen too often!!

[JBJB]

My understanding from when I sold a lot on ebay is that you have the contract with Royal Mail, not the buyer.

I have made claims from Royal Mail, but be warned.... they only pay back the cost of the item, not how much you spent on postage. Therefore your buyer would be even more upset because he hasn't received a full refund.

I'm sure the department of trade website covers this.....

[JBJB]

Here is a post on an ebay forum :

http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?messageID=1102126579&forumID=3002#1102126579

Not read it all the way through so not sure if completely relevant?

[nattynetty]

My understanding from when I sold a lot on ebay is that you have the contract with Royal Mail, not the buyer.



Yep that's my understanding of it too - you paid RM so the responsibility is yours to claim.

If you put yourself in the buyer's shoes I'm sure you'd be feeling a bit peed off - you've paid £30 for a beautiful mirror and not only does it arrive broken you're then told that if you want your money back it's up to you to go through all the hassle of filling in forms etc...and then it might take weeks til you get it - or even worse if RM don't agree to compensate you end up £30 out of pocket.

Personally, regardless of who should make the claim or whether it's easier for them to do so I would refund the £30 asap, make the claim and pray RM cough up. It's a gesture of goodwill that customers appreciate and sure you might end up out of pocket if RM refuse you but that's got to be better than the customer slagging you off to other potential customers.

[JBJB]

So if RM won't refund the money, I will have to?

I'm afraid that's one of the downsides of being a seller :o(

[swirlyarts]

It is a pain when people don't get their good etc but it has happened to me too - twice. The first time it happened I got the money back from Royal Mail for the item - you have to prove how much it is worth to them - but I didn't get the postage back. The second time I claimed they sent me a 6 pack of stamps as compensation - they didn't say why they hadn't refunded my money to me. Both times I refunded the customers half of the money at the time and then half when Royal Mail paid me back. That way they can see that you are taking their complaint seriously and that you want to give them their money back. I would agree with Natty Netty and say that you refund the money to them now and claim back from the Post Office.
Hope this helps even though you might not want to hear it!!

[MrSwirl]

You need to make the claim yourself - but you'll need the item and the packaging back from the person who says that it's damaged.

Ask them to keep it safe, refund half now, fill in the claim form, and if the RM need to see the item, then you'll need it back from the person.

Be warned, though, that the post office may say that you should have sent it differently - for example pottery is only covered if sent special delivery (I think). I sold some cups some time ago, the guy said they broke (which I doubt anyway!), and wanted a refund. I said that since he hadn't paid for insurance, I couldn't claim for it, so he couldn't have his money back. I would have paid it back if he'd argued it better, but his argument of "my mates reckon you should give me the money" wasn't good enough, and eventually he went away quietly.

[Katianne]

Sorry, no internet access over the weekend and have just been catching up on this. On Saturday I emailed the buyer and offered to put the claim in but explained I would need the mirror and packaging sent back. He replied to say that he would rather claim himself rather than pay the postage to return everything to me.

I have now offered that he can just return the packaging to me and supply me with photographs of the mirror to use as evidence for compensation. Or I suggested that I make the claim and when I receive the pre-paid envelope I forward it to him so he can use it to send the packaging to RM?

Do these options seem viable?

I want to offer what is best for the buyer. He is upset that this has happened and I am trying to come up with all possible options so really appreciate all your advice.

[Woodsprite]

I believe that under the Sale of Goods Act if you are a business selling to an individual then you are responsible for goods damaged in transit. If you are a business selling to a business then you they are responsible. The wording below from a local gov trading standards site:


If you are selling to a consumer, you are responsible for the risk of loss or damage in transit, until the goods are delivered. If you wish to take out postal insurance, this is your responsibility, not the consumer's. Postal insurance should therefore not be offered to consumers at an extra charge.
If you are selling to a business, they are responsible for the risk of loss or damage to the goods as soon as ownership passes to them. This normally happens when payment is made, so you may wish to offer postal insurance to business buyers, and you may wish to make an extra charge for this. If you do offer postal insurance, the buyer will expect you to make any claim on their behalf when the goods are lost or damaged.

That's probably not what you want to hear but looks like the responsibility is yours if they're an individual as opposed to a business.

[Seahorse]

Katian, have you sent him a replacement mirror to replace the broken one?

I like to add that couriers arnt necesarily any better.We work for a courier company and they sent something from us to one of their own sites and it was totally smashed when they received it.

[Katianne]

No, haven't sent a replacment yet as I haven't got one made. The mirror he bought was one I have only made once and only have one of. But will make another and send this as a replacement.

In terms of the claim, I gave the buyer all the options I mentioned - I make the claim but need the packaging etc back etc - The buyer has emailed me to say that from all the options he would rather make the claim himself so I have gone with his wishes.

In future (although I hope this doesn't happen again!) I will request that the buyer returns the mirror and packaging and I make the claim, as it seems that this is the way I should do it. Sorry for sounding naive, I really didn't know what should happen with this and as RM requested the packaging etc be sent as evidence I thought as the buyer had this it needed to go through him. Now I know though! Thanks all for your help and advice.

[swirlyarts]

It's a learning curve and you will find what works best for you - hope you get it sorted soon and that your customer is happy with what you have done for him.

[Andamento]

Hi Katian, sorry to hear about your damaged mirror. Can I ask how you are packaging them? I wrap my mirrors in tissue paper, put foam edge protection right round, wrap again in bubble wrap then box using newspaper to fill up any gaps. Touch wood, I haven't had any breakages yet. I don't think couriers are a safer option from a few stories I've heard, plus judging from the state of a lawnmower we had delivered (and just imagine having one of those sitting on top of one of your mirrors!). Using this amount of packaging does increase the p&p cost, but I'd hate to have to make a mirror all over again so to me it's worth it.

[icecreamgirl]

I bought one of Katian's mirrors, and it seemed well packaged to me, i was surprised that one got broken.
The mail men must have been playing football with it...

[nattynetty]

Sorry for sounding naive, I really didn't know what should happen with this and as RM requested the packaging etc be sent as evidence I thought as the buyer had this it needed to go through him. Now I know though! Thanks all for your help and advice.

Not naive at all Katian it's one of those things you don't really know about until it happens to you - I remember the first time a customer's parcel didn't arrive and I just thought omg what do I do now :o

That's the great thing about this forum.....someone will have been in your situation before and can offer advice whatever the problem.

For what it's worth I think you rescued the situation really well - by giving him the choice you've shown him you care :)

[Katianne]

Thanks all for the support! I really hope it gets sorted as hassle free for both parties as possible. I also want to keep the customer happy as he says he loves the mirror and whats happened has put a bit of a dampner on things.

I think I packae my mirros well. I always initially wrap them in bubblewrap, then put card either side, I use polystrene sheets and balls, newspaper. I always make sure the mirrors have a lot of protection either side and are marked FRAGILE (not that that makes any difference it seems!!!).

Thanks again all, will let you know how this one goes...

[Woodsprite]

I seem to recall reading somewhere or other that marking the item Fragile is not always a good idea an it can have the opposite effect and encourage some idiots to treat the package with even less care!

[colourart]

I seem to recall reading somewhere or other that marking the item Fragile is not always a good idea an it can have the opposite effect and encourage some idiots to treat the package with even less care!

I always mark mine fragile, because I'm sure that true of a very small minority.

Katianne, you've not been naive, its a learning curve, a mirror is an especially difficult thing to package and post, I would be worried every time I sent one, if it was me. The fact that your customer was happy with the mirror and you are sending him another is the important thing here. I hope RM cough up the compension for you quickly.

[Katianne]

I seem to recall reading somewhere or other that marking the item Fragile is not always a good idea an it can have the opposite effect and encourage some idiots to treat the package with even less care!

On the RM website they have guidelines re: how to pack items and it states that fragile items should be clearly marked. I have a feeling that if you don't mark it fragile and it gets damaged, they would say they wil not compensate because it wasn't marked fragile.

[Beadsage]

Loving the new name!! :)

[candles by lisa]

Me too, thought my eyesight was going there!!!

Mr M is a marvel when you need to change your name - now could he do the same with passports!!!! mmmmmm!

hehe.

Lisa

;)

[flutterby]

surely the mirror needs to stay where it is, cant risk it breaking again in transit. so he needs to take the photos and take the mirror and packaging to where it needs to go. Offer to speak to the person he talks to over the phone to figure out the best way to solve this.

You cannot loose money or risk negative feedback for something that obviously was not your fault.

good luck

call the postal service yourself with this dilema see what they suggest.

flutterby

[flutterby]

oops!

did not realise there are soooo many pages on this post.

probably covered this already

sorry!

flutterby

[flutterby]

seems strange he was not happy with your first suggestion then decided to stick with that one when you suggested other ways of dealing with this.
He might of been trying it on, cause he accidentally broke it himself?

just a thought.

Hope it works out.