Ebay is killing small craft shops.

[stevestuart]

Hello everyone

I try to help out with the forum on regular occasions as I think this is fantastic for all crafters to talk and a community is very important to express views.

I recently had a thief who was selling all my products and other craft shops in the area's products through ebay and I would like to ask you all to remember your local craft shops as everyone keeps telling each other about this site and how cheap it supposedly is!

Do not get me wrong, everyone is not doing this, but spare a thought for your local craft shops, if you keep buying on Ebay we will all close, then you will not have a choice as to where to shop, we have overheads, rates and staff to pay, that these sellers don't and thus the undercutting is rife and unfair!

Ebay is unaccountable to you all, we have the ideas, classes, aftercare, knowledge and friendly staff, please support us, as this site is making craftshops consider their futures through loads of emails I recieve, which is a real shame for us and you.

regards

Steve Stuart
Director
Courtyard Crafts
Brimstage Hall/Albert Dock
www.courtyardcraft.net

[Seahorse]

First of all I admit to loving ebay and have bought some cracking products from there.

That aside i am very glad to say we have a newish(about 6 months)craft shop in my town, and Hobbycrat about 20 minutes away.
I love shops were you get to browse around and actually get hands on with the products instead of sitting at a screen trying to work out how big a stamp is exactly etc.

My only complaint is that the style of product Im after is not available in any craft shop Ive seen.
Everything I want is in America and Im always wary of ordering from overseas re postage costs and hassle if things go missing.

If shops here had what I wanted id be spening a small fortune!!!

Whereabouts are yuo Steve?If your local I may visit.

[Seahorse]

Oh dear, I just multimapped you and yuor a bit too far away, tho Im enjoying looking at your site.

[0103media]

Tesco syndrome..

Umm.. Word of mouth will get you a long way..

Don't forget that ebay has shops to, just like a market or craft fair..

Good luck

[Auntysally]

yep - i have an ebay shop! how some of the bigger peeps can afford it is beyond me as the fees do start to cripple you after a while if you are selling low value items - which is why i set up my own online shop!

[the felt fairy]

I considered setting up an e-bay shop but after a little research I decided hand crafted things just dont sell well on e-bay.

Craft supplies.....well that would be a different story.

[Auntysally]

Hi Felt Fairy - just had a peak at your site - lovely! so cute!!

have you thought about making smaller ones? ones that would fit onto a card?

being a card maker and embellishment maker - peeps are always on the lookout for small embellishments!

[the felt fairy]

Oooooooh now there's a thought. I've only done one craft fair (in december) and it went so well I want to do more.

My trouble is thinking of things non chrismassy to make.

[Auntysally]

i sell some puffy fabric angels - you may have seen them - they are about 3 1/2 - 4 " - peeps love them - if you could get yours about 2" - 3" they would be fab for xmas cards! - i love your snowmen!!

[Seahorse]

Felt fairy, I love the things you make!!!

Dont forget valentines day is coming up do you can make some heart things and maybe birthday cakes for the rest of the year.

Il look at yuor site some more, the things remind me of a felt stocking I made when I was little, its such a great material to use.

[the felt fairy]

Thank you so much Seahorse! I am thinking all Valentine/easter and cakes now!!

Penny.

[Auntysally]

dont forget pretty things for mothers day too - so hearts dont have to be red!! :D

[jo's hubby]

Hi Steve
I understand where you are coming from and sympathise with you, but where does it end. ebay are a fact of life and they wont go away, as are the big hobby superstores that are springing up everywhere, we looked into getting our own shop and would love to do it but could not compete with Craft Central, The Range and Lakeland just down the road, so we chose to be an online retailer. We tried selling on ebay but with low cost items the fees made it impossible so we stick to craft fairs and our online shop which seems to work for us. There will allways be a place for 'real shops' in spite of running our own webshop Jo still goes and buys from them when she sees things she likes, that we dont stock, but the internet is here to stay and a good website has to offer the same freindly service as a shop to survive. In the end people will buy where they want and we all have to understand that and give them what they want so we can survive.

[Bea]

Hi Steve

Not to forget the likes of ''You can make it'' craft supplies shows which are, I believe, very popular. (I've never been but despite a high entrance fee, it's packed, I was told).

I looked at opening a brick & mortar shop last year but it was just too expensive.

I think there is a market for craft shops but I believe advertising is very important for these shops. People don't know where they are - it's either word of mouth or adverts in the likes of Crafts Beautiful and Practical Crafts (That's how I found the ones near me).

I don't think small shops are forgotten, not everyone likes ebay! And I think it's more tempting seeing things in the ''flesh''.

Are your comments based on declining sales over the years? The craft market, especially card making, has exploded over the last year or so. There's a craft shop within Ostwaldtwistle Mill and it's grown and grown and grown. Running craft classes probably helped, and advertising.

Bea

[destinyUK]

Hi, I have 2 ebay shops (although I dont like like ebay that much at the moment!) 2 websites, and a bricks n mortar shop. I have to say, if you want to keep up with the flow (or the Jones') then I highly recommend working on ebay.
In my experience, the ebay shop brings in the most customers and the most turnover.
.
we have overheads, rates and staff to pay, that these sellers don't and thus the undercutting is rife and unfair What!!! Not so! A b&m shop is by far one hell of alot cheaper to run than an ebay one, believe me!
My bricks and mortar shop costs me only a third of what it costs me to run my ebay shops, but the more money spent on listings, obviously the more items you will sell. I couldnt run my 'B & M' shop with out the backing of my ebay business.
With ebay demanding 1/3 of the UK's internet traffic, it definately seems the way to go........
Wishing you all the best
Alison :)
PS I hate to plug ebay due to the way I have recently been treated, but as a selling platform, there is nothing else in its class, Ive tried them all!

[liz15a]

Being the good honest person that I am :) , I don't generally sell on Ebay.

Why? Because the majority of UK papercraft suppliers/distributors actually forbid it - hence there aren't that many of my products left that I could list on Ebay legitimately! Unfortunately, most people dont abide by this rule and sell everything on auction sites regardless of these T&C's.

I would also love (going off on a slight tangent) to know what percentage of Ebay sellers arent declared to the taxman - I bet its a fair whack!

Having said all that, I love it as much as the next person, as you really can find anything you want on there and I have found some great loyal customers from listing bits on it now and then.

But most people I know never use it/don't know how to/arent interested, so I think the local shop is always going to do ok.

[destinyUK]

I would also love (going off on a slight tangent) to know what percentage of Ebay sellers arent declared to the taxman - I bet its a fair whack!

100% above board, That goes for most ebay business sellers!
Im not easily offended, but my business , along with millions of others, pay their taxes just like 'bricks and mortar' shops. Why on earth people thing we are 'beyond the rules' is beyond me.
Please tell me what is so dishonest about trading on ebay?
I am a very honest person, and I trade on ebay...full time!
There maybe the odd few that don't declare all to the taxman, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
One thing is for sure, because of ebays feedback system, if you are dishonest, everyone will know and you won't get anywhere, if you are an honest, trusted, and repected seller, you can go along way. I rest my case!
Alison

[liz15a]

Oh dear, I didn't mean to offend you I'm ever so sorry!

I totally agree that the business shops are fine and I know there are a lot of very honest people trading on Ebay trying to make an honest living! I certainly wasnt implying that anyone on this forum is dishonest at all!

But I have seen MANY products being sold on there that I know are not permitted by the manufacturers to be sold on auction site, so there is truth in what I am saying!

I think I'll go bury my head in the sand for a while...... :cry:

[Bea]

I think this debate just goes to show there is room for both!

I was talking to a lady in Liverpool this weekend - she didn't know there was a Courtyard Crafts on the Docks! The brick and mortar shops might just not be advertising enough! Or if they are, they're still not reaching the people they need to reach.

There was a Creative Crafts Show at the weekend at the Gmex in Manchester, and a lady who has been said 'you couldn't move because it was so packed'! Did Courtyard Crafts have a stall? I know the outlay is expensive to have a stall but surely it must be worth the money for the advertising you'd get (especially as local as this).
This lady, once again, said they couldn't get to see demonstrations because it was so busy. If Courtyard Crafts is organising demonstrations and classes, then again you might not be reaching the people you need to reach?

Some shops just get mentioned and word of mouth works a great deal, but advertising has to be a mixture of methods (eBay being one of them surely).

As for eBay, I am registered as self-employed. Not everyone needs to be registered if they sell the odd thing but you'll find that most shop sellers on ebay are likely to be registered - they would be an easy target for the IR otherwise.

[Sammy Potter]

E-Bay is ok but you do have to check prices sometimes. I've found some things much cheaper on-line and not on e-bay.

On the other hand I have seen things you would never see in the shops so is does have its good and bad sides.

[Apple Tree Crafts]

...and I used to spend £50 to £60 a week in there.

Until, one day, I had applique cards featured in a magazine. When I popped into the shop for cardstock, the woman who runs the shop asked to see my cards, having read the magazine.

I had a few in my bag for a customer so I showed them to her. She took one look, curled her lip and pronounced them to be 'cr*p'....I left, and didn't return.

I have sinced discovered several people who have been treated the same way and I've heard that this woman will ban people from her shop if she doesn't like their taste in crafts. So, unfortunately, our one and only local craft shop doesn't get a lot of support.......but that's their own fault.

We do have a Hobbycraft, but's it's 25 miles away, and doesn't ever have what I need.

So, for me, eBay is invaluable for buying. I've almost given up selling though as the fees are unbelievable.

Jules

[The Craft Shed]

Hello everyone

I know there is a lot of gripes about EBay shops but on the whole you find these days that most "bricks and morter" shops also run with EBay but under another guise! and why not? Many of the larger more well known manufacturers are also coming round to the fact that there is a place for online supplying. So long as they stick to the same pricings and trade ordering all is fair. It is when you get EBayers selling at silly prices then that is when it becomes unfair. Having said that I know of certain large retail shops that undercut each other and why is that different to online businesses?

I tried to chat about a new uk based online auction site dedicated to art and crafts which is beneficial to all for different reasons and was shot down in flames - so shhhhhhhh I need to post 25 posts before I can mention this site.

Live and let live.

The Craft Shed

[Peter]

You didn't get shot down - Anice helped you out by posting the URL in the next post. If you don't understand the reason for the 25 posts, or think it's draconian, have a look at some of the spam posts we used to get before the rule was enforced - it has made a huge difference to the forum, we now have members who WANT to be here rather than just using it as free advertising. I appreciate some genuine URL postings will get deleted as well, but we do try to differentiate as much as we can - if it's a charity or non money making site it usually gets allowed, but you have to remember, 0103 Media is running a fee paying directory for crafters - hence no freebies! :)