A photography section?

[sweet]

I wonder if we could get a photography section...Ian has been really helpful with all his info on photographing jewellery etc, maybe we could get those threads moved to a photography section if we could get one?!! :D

s.x

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Sweet,
I would go for that as there is a lot more that can be done and needs to be done. Good photography sells good products, bad photography sells nothing!

So, yes a section dedicated to photographing products for display would, I think benefit everyone, even me. I am always willing to learn that’s how you get to be good at what you do and every one has ideas that may or may not work, but you don’t know until you try them out.

Anyone else interested?

Regards,
I..

[Chris W]

Seems like a good idea, photography is a essential skill and a lot of fun too.
We can all benefit from tips from Ian who kindly seems to be on a mission to raise the standards of our images.

[0103media]

If enough of you say yes i'll add it but maybe a sicky thread in general section would help ??

I'm a avid photographer...

Let me know what you guy think..

My only concern is the same question would come up again and again which a refference thread may work better ?

[Works-in-Wood]

Yup I'm up for a photography section.

Chris.

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Chaps,

Whilst I really believe in photography as an art form and there is some controversy about whether photography is an art form elsewhere.

I think that rather than cover general photography any articles or threads should be specifically related to what you all do. That way lots of crafters get the benefit of advice and an exchange of ideas that is relevant to them.

The objective should be to raise the standard of photography generally over all the methods of disseminating information (advertising) but without trying to make everyone of you a professional photographer, that just wouldn’t work and it’s not necessary.

Everybody can achieve a higher standard and that should be the objective rather than to push aside those of us who may struggle with some of the concepts or technology. Photography is just one of the ways of recording an image. Some of you could draw whatever you create very well indeed and that is something I can’t do. Some of you make things that I would look at in wonder and think now how did they do that!

So, anybody reading this please stick your hand up and say ‘I can do better with my photography’. I know I can!

Regards to all,

I..

[Peter]

..........................it's the little button on the right of the camera then.............?? :)

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Beadsage,

Yes, that’s the one that starts off the train of mistakes that the operator and camera seam to do with alarming regularity.

Kindest Regards,

I..

[Chris W]

There doesn't seem to be much help and advice concerning jewellery photography on the internet. When I first started to photograph my jewellery it took me a while to work out the best way to do it. I wasted £100 on a lightbox off ebay which I thought would do the job. (It wasn't big enough to allow me to get interesting angles and didn't give me good enough exposures.) I also bought a camera that quickly became obsolete.
I think a photography section with lots of info could attract members to the forum and probably save us time and money too.

[sweet]

I think a photography section with lots of info could attract members to the forum and probably save us time and money too.


I think so too! and also if we had a seperate forum we could have specific threads rather than it being all over the place...

s.x

[sunbatheintheshade]

i definately agree, i am saving up for a top new camera i have seen as its my next crafty move (if it can be called a craft) which i think it is!
it would be good to have a small bit on photoshop too as i have just been teaching myself that too see my icons (http://www.sunbatheintheshade.com/HANDMADE-CARDS-SCategory-1.html) on my cards page.
so as far as a photography section goes i think i would really benefit from as many tips as possible.

rach x

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Chaps,

I’m not so sure about a separate forum, I think that may be a little ‘clicky’ but it would serve a purpose.

I have seen very little about product photography anywhere but I do know that you can find courses to join up to so that you can learn more about it but this tends to be more for the professional photographer.

You are not professional photographers and I have no doubt you have no wish to be. It’s more the case that you want to present what you make and sell in a more professional manner.
Just look around you and see what you come in contact with. Most of the images you see are absolute rubbish; there is no other word for it and it’s so unnecessary.

I think and believe that people’s discernment of photographic images is far too low. A good well exposed and well setup image will sell a product; it is the first thing you see in a magazine and on the web. Imagine if you were to see an image that’s grey, muddy and out of focus in a magazine like Vogue, what would you think? You certainly wouldn’t go and part with some cash to buy it.

Good images sell products, poor images sell nothing and apart from that it also sets you out as being unprofessional. There are no excuses for bad photography and there are no excuses for being unprofessional about what you do. Which is not a good badge to ware when you are trying to sell against some stiff competition?

Regards to All,

I..

[Poppy4lee]

. There are no excuses for bad photography I..

I know what you're saying and I do try my best (honest) but I'm just cr*p at it!! It's like me saying that there are no excuses for not understanding saltatory conduction :D I think a photography section would be a really good idea and I will try to learn from it but when it gets more complex than 'point and press' I get a 'computer says no' message from my brain :confused:

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Poppy4lee,
Now let me see, would that be something like electro/chemical stimulation of nerve fibre?

Regards,

I..

[Carol29]

I think a photography section would be great. However, I agree that a separate forum is too much. I recently posted a query on photographing my jewellery and Ian replied very quickly and gave some very good advice.

It might be useful to have a permanent...FAQ's section on photography so that someone as expericened as Ian isn't always answering hundreds of questions but that a permanent page of advice is available to all.

Cheers

Carol
www.carolshawjewellery.com (http://www.carolshawjewellery.com)

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Carol,

Thanks for that.

FAQ’s are useful but they tend to be none specific and they don’t give you that hands on feel. I would agree that a few pages of none specifics would benefit some members and help reduce what may be quite a high workload but I don’t think that you can beat a direct question and answer, it’s more community spirited.

I also have to admit that my typing is - well we will just say its two fingered! There is also the case where the gremlins keep on shuffling the keys around on my key board. Mmmm, cute little things aren’t they!

The object of all this of course is to improve what is mostly found difficult. I think that it needs to be kept simple and straightforward but I think as a group the standards can be raised to the point where we could all be satisfied that a good job has been done. I am open to criticism of the constructive kind and welcome challenging ideas and concepts and I would like to think that this is a ‘two way street’.

We all learn at differing rates and I can be as dumb as the next person over some things but we can try and make this fun and anything but boring. Boring is not a good option, it destroys stimulating creativity and being creative is what we all do!

I..

[Poppy4lee]

Hi Poppy4lee,
Now let me see, would that be something like electro/chemical stimulation of nerve fibre?

Regards,

I..

Sort of -it's more like the propagation of action potentials along myelinated nerve fibres, using voltage gated ion channels (aka sodium/potassium pumps). Talking about it is one thing, the application of an actual understanding is another.

Don't get me wrong, I will try to gain an understanding of photography and I think it's extremely generous of you to give your time in this way (especially to a dummy like me :D) so HUGE thanks from me - Annie Leibovitz watch out!!

[charlotte]

Thank you Ian for your help.

Recently I have tried to take the photos of my jewelleries but the result was horrible.

My camera is a 5x optical zoom hp. I have bought 3 study lightbox, two 11watt and one 40watt and exposed 3 of them on the piece even from very near of it and once I placed the jewellery on top of the light!

But never worked ! :confused: The photos were not shiny enough for jewelleries and always dark despite of that much light!

Do you have any suggestion ? I appreciate all help.

[ladyluckjewellery]

I too think a photography section or hints and tips area would be very useful.

I am useless at photography, I have only just mastered not chopping peoples heads off:sm:

Ian has posted some very honest, detailed and useful feedback on this site and I think a specific 'Q&A' section or something along those lines would work very well.

I'm also dreading Ian seeing my photos (I just know he's going to look now I've posted on this thread). I know they are truly dreadful, and I am soon going to be sorting myself out with a decent camera, but anything too technical with photography such as shutter speed, exposures etc just doesn't sink into my head at all.

Claire

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Claire,

Your dead right I will be looking!

Regards,

I..

[Ian Beckerton]

Hello Charlotte,

I have had a look at your site and I get the impression after reading what you have been saying that you didn’t take the images!

Personally I wouldn’t use a light box as I find them limiting for some of the angles you can use. Light tents are better but again they still limit some of the angles and they can take up a lot of room, I have a 4 foot cube one. Light tents are good at giving you a soft light, good for high contrast items but low contrast items are a disaster.

My choice is a couple of flash heads with soft boxes, very simple and very flexible. These have the advantage that you can set them up to give you ‘different types’ of light. Without any diffusion they would give you a hard very directional metallic light source, good for very low contrast items. With Silver Umbrellas they would give you a light that is not as hard as the direct flash but still slightly metallic. With Soft boxes you get a good contrast but not hard light so would be good for most types of image.

The biggest mistake I would think, would be that you are letting the camera do the work. This is ok if you are taking snapshots outside in good light but not if you want to be serious about what you are doing.

No camera, and I mean all cameras regardless of cost will expose correctly if the image frame is predominantly white or black. The exposure sensors aren’t set up for that, they are set up to give you an average exposure over the entire image frame. So if the frame is predominantly white then the camera thinks that the image is too bright and under exposes the image. If the image frame is predominantly black then the camera will do the opposite of white and over expose the image.

What you have to remember is that rostrum (Still Life) photography is very spe******ed so you have to approach what you are doing in a specific way. Still life photography tends to require a technical approach as well as an artistic one.

The way forward for this kind of work is to use the camera in its manual mode so that you make all the decisions. You can take a basic exposure reading using the automatics on the camera but then transfer these into the manual mode and adjust as required to give you the image you want. Going out spending lots of dosh on an all singing all dancing camera won’t solve the problem only you can do that in the cameras manual mode.

My basic set up consists of a Nikon digital camera, a Nikon lens (which one depends on what I am doing) and a Minolta incidental exposure meter. The lighting is normal a two flash head umbrella/soft box combination but I can use up to 5 flash heads and a light table!
To me the most important piece of equipment is the exposure meter, it just tells me what the lighting is and whether it’s balanced or not. All my images are shot in the cameras manual mode so that the camera has no control over what I am doing, it just records the image.

So you could use a very basic camera (providing it has manual settings) to give you the perfect result and that is what photography is about, capturing an image painted by light. Providing you can measure or asses the lights intensity by measuring incidental light or by reflected light then you can record it accurately on virtually any camera.

If you need more specifics just ask!

Kindest Regards,

I..

[Ian Beckerton]

I’m Back Again Claire,

Now where would you like me to start and I am not going to be cruel!

The basic problem is again you are letting the camera do all the work, don’t, it can’t. This applies to all cameras be it something very cheap from China (and they do make some good cameras) or the latest all singing all dancing camera from Lica.

For the kind of images you want to take which are still life images then really the camera has to be in manual mode, it’s the only way you will have of achieving consistently good, sharp, well exposed images.

The most difficult thing is assessing the light levels, you can do this with your current camera but to get the best results transfer these settings into the cameras manual mode. Have the aperture set as small as is practical to get the lens to work in its optimum region (f8-f16) as this will help sharpen up the image and give you an increased depth of focus. Use a tripod or some other steadying aid; you could use a bean bag if you want to make one.

Working at small apertures means that the exposure will be quite long and you won’t be able to hold the camera still whilst you are taking the image. For the best results us a light meter to measure the incidental light level (this is light that is falling onto the object to be photographed), light meters aren’t fooled as the camera is as they only tell you what is there and don’t try and control it! Put these settings into the cameras manual settings, take the image and you will see a vast difference in the quality of the image.

The light source is another matter as you are using incandescent lighting (ordinary light bulbs), I can see that because the image is predominantly orange. You can correct for this with most digital cameras by adjusting the white balance to compensate for the light source, though the range can be a bit limited it will work.

You could use photoflood lamps as they aren’t that expensive (£2-3 each) but they have quite short life (3-4 hrs) and get very hot but they will give a better light than normal light bulbs, the image will still be a little orange but that should be correctable with the white balance control.

This is just a start as you can go a long way with this and I don’t want to overload you. Try the easy stuff first and see how you get on, you will see an improvement and we can take it from there later.

Kindest Regards,

I..

[brittone05]

Hi Ian

I am very new to the forum and as yet can't post any of my pictures up but was hoping I would be able to ask you some questions :D

I have a Fuji S9600 which I use to shoot in manual mode, occasionally using RAW if I am working with flowers and whatnot.

I make corsets and gowns and such for people and wondered as to the best way for me to best photograph my work to make it eyecatching and get the truest colours and such.

I can work okay with the macro settings and get quite tight shots of detail but I think it is the composition that messes me up and the fact that I get the camera out to photograph and corset and spot a new flower outside so toddle off to shoot that instead hahaha

Any tips at all to hekp me best represent my work? Once I have enought posts up, I can put pics up of both my macro shots (only via the camera, no additional lenses) and my portfolio shots before photoshopping :D

MAny thanks in advance :D

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Brittone05,

Yes, you can ask as many questions as you want, no problem.

The Fuji S9600 has a good write up in the reviews so the camera shouldn’t cause you too many problems. I think that I would rather use Tiff rather than raw for you file formats if you are doing anything with large files. Tiff files are recognised as being the industrial format for loss less storage. Everything I take and store is in Tiff format and I keep all my images (that’s lots of storage space) for future use!

Unfortunately I can’t comment on something I haven’t seen but I think you can add a link after 25 posts. If you can’t then you can send me a pm with a link attached.

One thing I can say though is that for true colours the exposure has to be correct but I will make further comment on that after I have seen your work.

Kindest Regards,

I..

[brittone05]

Thanks ever so much for the quick reply Ian :D

There are some of my dresses and such in a thread in "clothing" although they are only stage shots, not for my portfolio.

The only real pics I have of anything close is not of my clothing but other stuff - hope it is okay to poke a couple into this thread?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/brittone05/Dressmaking/DSCF4353.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/brittone05/DSCF4741.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/brittone05/DSCF4629.jpg

Justa rough idea of the level I am at - I am still a very low level learner and hope to one day own a "real" camera with some good macro lenses and such as photography is one of my other hobbies at the moment :D

Again, thanks for your reply :D

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Brittone05,

A couple of things I think. Which camera are you using?

When you are taking this sort of photograph and really you are displaying three distinctly different styles here. What goes through your mind, In other words what is it you’re taking?

The first question is obvious; I can look it up, if I don’t know it already, and see what I think the camera is capable of!

The second question is a bit more thoughtful as I would like to know what it is you want to achieve!

Regards,

I..

[brittone05]

Hey Ian

The camera is a Fujifilm Finepix S9600, set to auto exposure, aperture but using manual zoom and focus.

I think when I take a picture, I try to capture things that people wouldn't normally see - a certain angle or a certain depth to an object that wouldn't normally be there.

For instance, the table shot - I bought the cast iron table and chairs with a view to restoring them but have spent more time photogrpahing them! They are battered, rusty and so full of character that most people would see as old and disgusting.

I want to try to capture moments that would otherwise be lost - like the rain drop pic, not great I know but as soon as that drop landed, it was gone forever apart from behind my lens where it will live forever :D

Then I also find beauty in taking pics of things at odd angles and looking at them differently than normal - I am kind of like a female version of the 1 hour photo guy off the film apart from I don't hold people hostage!!

With regard to my photographing my work, I try to capture the grain of the fabric, the essence of the stitching and the vividness of some of the colours I work with which, all too often, get lost in a photograph even when the garment is being worn.

Bit of a waffle but a small insight into my mind :D

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Brittone05,


I must reread my own answers to the questions that are asked; you already told me previously what camera you are using!

The one thing you haven’t mentioned in your note and it is absolutely fundamental to what you are doing, is the use of light.

The images you have shown are basically forensic images. For these lighting is second nature, it’s just something that allows you to take the image!

To me photography is about the what light is doing as it is reflected of an object, all light is reflected one way or another and the camera is capturing that reflected light which is a rather different way of looking at what you are doing. You have already told me that you let the camera sort out the exposure, don’t. Take control of what the camera is doing and use your eye to judge what you want out of it. By all means use the camera to give you a basic exposure but then modify this to give an image that has depth. The images you have here have no depth; the lighting is very flat and uninteresting, find and use interesting light. If you can’t find it create it by using reflectors or absorbers, white card reflects, black card adsorbs.

Photography is a creative media; it isn’t just about recording an image. Look around you at what light is doing or being made to do by whatever it is being reflected off or adsorbed by. Train your eye to see this and you will become a good photographer, capturing it is another matter!
Kindest Regards,

I..

[brittone05]

Thanks ever so much Ian :D

If I am honest, I never really take lighting into account other than when photographing my geckos at which point, I use a light box but only ever take 1 angled shots of them.

I shall have a play wit some reflecting and absorbing and shall try to dig out some lamps to use.

I do use the flash on the camera but only the built in one and don't have a separate flash. Could I diffuse the flash on my camera at all? What kinds of results would that produce?

Shall also look into the TIFF files rather than RAW - th =e images I have postd havne't been processed at all - here is a couple of RAW ones which I did play with :D

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/brittone05/daisy1ab.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b247/brittone05/greycolourcopy1copy.jpg

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Brittone05,

You can diffuse the flash in a built in flash head, I’ve used white toilet tissue in the past quite successfully and I would think that a white Kleenex would work well. Rather than just taping it over the flash make a little box that you can place over the head, this will diffuse the flash light very well indeed.

When I was at collage I wanted to take part of a photograph using Polaroid camera. The photograph was going to be American food themed and I was going to photograph a Bagel and show it popping out of the Polaroid. The flash on the Polaroid I was using was useless; it had a hot spot the size of the Moon, which just made the image look a mess.

I invested in a small flash trigger; it looks like a small mushroom. I tapped this over the flash head and used it to trigger some soft boxes I had made from a couple of cardboard boxes from my local supermarket and a couple of old camera mounted flash heads I got from a second hand shop for a couple of quid. With a bit of fiddling to get a descant exposure I took the shot and it worked out very well. I am still pleased with it even though by modern standards it’s a bit ropy but there again this was shot on film and there was no photoshop to change anything as it was a straight print.

I am telling you this so that you know that there is an alternative to spending lots of dosh on some smart piece of equipment. It is quite amazing what you can do with what would be regarded as a ‘Blue Peter’ approach to photography but that is one of the arts. It doesn’t have to be expensive equipment to get the image you want, it just takes a little imagination and a bit of sticky tape.

The two images you have put up have the same problem and again it’s the lighting the monochrome image is over exposed and the one taken on the sun lounger is unbalanced, we won’t mention the slightly odd angle though. The camera is working quite well; you just need to understand it more to get the best out of it.

Kindest Regards,

I..

[brittone05]

Thanks again Ian - I shall spend tomorrow (have a children free day :)) with various card, paper, fabric, tissues and a large roll of cellotape and see what I can produce.

I have some bits I can use for the time being to practive with that will hopefully reflect light, absorb light and refract light to give me some good layers to my shots.

Big thanks for your help so far and here's hoping I can improve some things and change some other things to get an improvement :D

[mybagbase]

Hi,all
Somebody look better in the pictuers than their real look but someone look worse,why? that was the problem keeping on comfusing me, so I don't want to take pictures if it isn't required.I just I lost many pleasure of life.

[charlotte]

Thank you very much Ian for your kind advices.
I always read carefully your threads and try to pick up your advices. It seems that if we want to do the photography ourselves, we have to invest in umbrella flashes and background pads. However I do not see myself to master the methods quickly even if I have all the materials ;)

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Charlotte,

No, you are wrong in that assumption, photography doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive.
I use expensive equipment and if I had the money I would use even more expensive equipment to get the quality I want. Photography is like anything else, it’s the attention to detail that sets the quality. If you are working at the very highest levels then you will use equipment that will give you the edge on quality.

Put simply it’s the difference between using a camera that has 10mp image sensor and gives you a 29mb file or a camera that has a 20mp image sensor and gives you a 59mb file. With the first camera you could have a print of about 75cm and it would be OK. With the 20mp camera you could have a print about twice the size with the same quality but if you had the same size print, 75cm then the image quality would be so much better. The more information you have the more information you can use in the detail of the print.

You can get very good images from some relatively cheap equipment. It’s just the way that you use it that makes the difference. If you use a little imagination and understand how the camera works then you can work wonders with just window light, no need for anything other than a few sheets of paper to either reflect onto or adsorb the light from the thing you are photographing. Try it!

Kindest Regards,

I..

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Mybagbase,

It’s all about light and the angle that you are viewing from. With the right lighting you can make a pile of bricks look interesting and unusual. With lighting that is very flat the pile of bricks will just look like a pile of bricks.

People are very much the same with the right lighting a person can be the most attractive person you have ever seen. Have poor lighting an attractive person can look like the most unattractive person you have seen!

The same applies to the angle that you take a photograph from, some angles work well, others don’t. I understand your confusion, I sometimes can’t quite see why an image isn’t working and all it is is a slight change in angle. It is as simple as that.

Experience tells me what I need to do to make an image work but some times the solution is obscure, I just can’t see what the problem is.

I hope that answers your question.

Kindest Regards,

I..

[Chris W]

I agree with Ian that you don't need expensive equipment to take reasonably good webshots.
A trained eye is a great bonus and I would suggest doing google image searches in your product area in order to get an idea of what works and what doesn't. When you see the images on google side by side you notice what stands out, images with muddy colours and poor detail fade into the background. It is astonishing how many webshots are not correctly exposed.
Ideally webshots ought to grab the attention of the potential customer and invite them to buy.
I should think everyone would have their own take on what looks good, but clarity of detail, shape, texture and colour has to be the main thing to aim for.
Although I trained and worked professionally as a fine art photographer for over ten years I wouldn't use an approach that was arty for my website, I want the jewellery to be the star.

[Ian Beckerton]

Hi Chris W,

I think what Chris is trying to say is that by the use of positioning and perspective then you can produce an image that is worthy of the piece of jewellery you have just made. Providing you have the exposure and colour balance correctly set so that the items colours are accurately presented then you have an image that will sell.

There are lots of ‘photographers’ who profess to be able to give you an image that will sell your jewellery. Some can, but there are others out there that will load up the image with all sorts of gimmicky backgrounds. All it does is detract from the single most important thing and that is your piece of jewellery or whatever else it might be.

I am very wary of backgrounds, I analyse what they are doing to the image and why they have been used. Often as not they are unnecessary and if anyone complains that they are necessary then I will just say “get in closer and fill the image frame with what you are supposed to be representing”!!

Obviously there are times when a background sets the item to its best advantage but that background must not overtake the piece that you have lovingly made, that has precedence.

I..

X